whiskey, cognac, brandy

[See-Fu]

I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, but I can't seem to figure it out. Can someone shed some light on this for me. I've done a wiki search, but still don't really get it.

[See-Fu]

I figured out how whiskey is different and I know that cognac is a type of brandy. What other kinds of liquor are a type of brandy?

[lightning9191]

I'm a Wikipedia slut......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandy

Pisco was the other type that I recognized, but it appears that brandy is broken into 3 categories: grape, fruit, and pomace.

[Kreth]

To add to the confusion, port is fortified with brandy. Mmmmmmm, port. :dr

[TheRiddick]

I figured out how whiskey is different and I know that cognac is a type of brandy. What other kinds of liquor are a type of brandy?

The only difference is that Cognac is brandy produced INSIDE of region of Cognac in France. All brandies produced outside of Cognac can only be labeled brandy. No other difference.

[See-Fu]

Awesome. thanks for the help.

[TheRiddick]

Actually, there is one difference, come to think of it, in some cases such as brandies produced here in USA.

Those produced in Cognac are mostly produced from one grape varietal, uni blanc, with sometimes small additions of other less known grapes. Brandies made in USA can be made from any grape whatsoever. The end result, at least in my experience, is that you get more nuance and complexity this way since each grape adds something to the blend, another layer of flavor if you will. Similar to a cigar where each component (leaf) adds its own flavor to the blend.

Don't only stick to Cognac, try some great brandies from Spain and USA, I am sure you'll like at least some of them. And most likely may prefer USA versions to Cognac.

[hova45]

What happened to good ol Rum? Man you need to get some Zacapa centenario, ZAYA, or Diplomatico Reserva.

[mosesbotbol]

Those produced in Cognac are mostly produced from one grape varietal, uni blanc, with sometimes small additions of other less known grapes.


I thought Chard. was the main grape in Cognac?

[Don Fernando]

The only difference is that Cognac is brandy produced INSIDE of region of Cognac in France. All brandies produced outside of Cognac can only be labeled brandy. No other difference.

or, if they are from the region Armagnac, they will label it Armagnac.

[robofan]

I thought Chard. was the main grape in Cognac?


No Chard in Cognac.

From Cognac World

The entire Cognac vineyard covers around 80.000 hectares (1 hectare = 2,47 acres) and 15.000 plantations that produce white wine for the production of Cognac. The main grape variety that is planted is Ugni blanc (mostly "Folle Blanche" and "Colombard"). This slow ripening variety is very resistant to diseases and produces a wine that has two vital qualities : a high level of acidity and a generally low alcohol content.

[JohnnyFlake]

Since your are seeking information on Cognac you may be interested the how Cognac is graded:

The official quality grades of cognac are, according to the BNIC (Bureau National Interprofessionnel du Cognac):

* VS Very Special, or ✯✯✯ (three stars) where the youngest brandy is stored at least two years in cask.
* VSOP Very Superior Old Pale, where the youngest brandy is stored at least four years in cask, but the average wood age is much older.
* XO Extra Old, where the youngest brandy is stored at least six, but average upwards of 20 years.

In addition can be mentioned:

* Napoleon Although the BNIC states this grade is equal to XO in terms of minimum age, it is generally marketed in-between VSOP and XO in the product range offered by the producers.
* Extra A minimum of 6 years of age, this grade is usually older than a Napoleon or an XO.
* Vieux Is another grade between the official grades of VSOP and XO.
* Vieille Réserve Is like the Hors d´Age a grade beyond XO.
* Hors d'âge The BNIC states that also this grade is equal to XO, but in practice the term is used by producers to market a high quality product beyond the official age scale. Hence the name "Hors d'age" (beyond age).

No house of cognac produces all the above mentioned grades/qualities.

[TheRiddick]

Johnny,

For the most part, I avoid any Cognac that has a "designation". If you look at all the small house, family owned Cognacs on the market, they don't have any designation to begin with, simply some proprietary name that means something for that particular house.

For example, most any small house Cognac STARTS with a blend that is about 10 average, meaning some of the components may be 5 years old and others that are 15 years old. This easily surpasses even the XO designation, which is used by most "commercial" houses such as Martell, Remy, Hennessy and others.

I don't even remember the last time I drank any Cognac with a "designation", I was gifted a bottle of Hennessy XO recently and I am not looking towards drinking it: too much oak, artificial coloring (any red tint means that) and little nuance. TO MY PALATE, YMMMV of course. Many houses do marketing tricks by having their products in expensive crystal bottles, but the product inside is same old oak driven, color tinted and little nuanced brandy.

Look for small houses, such as Delamaine, Ferrand, Deret, Gourmel (my favorite), Hine and a few others. A bit more money, but then you're buying and enjoying, say, something on the order of a high end smoke (Opus, DPG, Tats, Illusione, etc) versus Swisher Sweets.

Per your post above, ALL the houses I listed are ABOVE the mentioned grades, in many cases way above (20-30+ years blends). Guaranteed. I've been drinking them since mid '80s and can highly recommend them. Even their "bottom end" is way above the best of the big houses.

[mosesbotbol]

Look for small houses, such as Delamaine, Ferrand, Deret, Gourmel (my favorite), Hine and a few others. A bit more money, but then you're buying and enjoying, say, something on the order of a high end smoke (Opus, DPG, Tats, Illusione, etc) versus Swisher Sweets.

:tpd:

I can't say enough about chosing the small houses when it comes to Cognac. There's no comparasion between dollar to dollar spent. I really love Ferrand and it's pretty well distributed. $50 or so should get you something to show off.

[JohnnyFlake]

Johnny,

For the most part, I avoid any Cognac that has a "designation". If you look at all the small house, family owned Cognacs on the market, they don't have any designation to begin with, simply some proprietary name that means something for that particular house.

For example, most any small house Cognac STARTS with a blend that is about 10 average, meaning some of the components may be 5 years old and others that are 15 years old. This easily surpasses even the XO designation, which is used by most "commercial" houses such as Martell, Remy, Hennessy and others.

I don't even remember the last time I drank any Cognac with a "designation", I was gifted a bottle of Hennessy XO recently and I am not looking towards drinking it: too much oak, artificial coloring (any red tint means that) and little nuance. TO MY PALATE, YMMMV of course. Many houses do marketing tricks by having their products in expensive crystal bottles, but the product inside is same old oak driven, color tinted and little nuanced brandy.

Look for small houses, such as Delamaine, Ferrand, Deret, Gourmel (my favorite), Hine and a few others. A bit more money, but then you're buying and enjoying, say, something on the order of a high end smoke (Opus, DPG, Tats, Illusione, etc) versus Swisher Sweets.

Per your post above, ALL the houses I listed are ABOVE the mentioned grades, in many cases way above (20-30+ years blends). Guaranteed. I've been drinking them since mid '80s and can highly recommend them. Even their "bottom end" is way above the best of the big houses.

That's interesting. I am not much a Cognac person, however, I do indulge on occasion. I don't have a bottle at this time, but there is a Cognac from Spain that I really enjoy, however, I do not recall the name of it exactly. It's something like El Presidente, etc. My son usually picks it up for me in the Chicago area and brings a bottle in when he comes to visit.

Are the designations only used on the French Cognacs?

[adampc22]

[QUOTE=JohnnyFlake;284057]That's interesting. I am not much a Cognac person, however, I do indulge on occasion. I don't have a bottle at this time, but there is a Cognac from Spain that I really enjoy, however, I do not recall the name of it exactly. It's something like El Presidente, etc. My son usually picks it up for me in the Chicago area and brings a bottle in when he comes to visit.

Are the designations only used on the French Cognacs?[/QUOTE

brandy made in Spanish town of Jerez can be called cognac but only brandy from there outside jerez its called brandy

[yourchoice]

Okay, this thread is taking a cognac turn, so I will ask a question... I'm a very big fan of scotch. Scotch and gin are generally my two favorite libations. I am interested in trying a cognac (or brandy). Is there a reasonably priced, reasonably available cognac someone could recommend? I would hate to buy something that is subpar leading me to swear off cognac in the future. TYIA!

[adampc22]

try Courvoisier or martell thay are my favs i am a big cognac drinker

[mosesbotbol]

Okay, this thread is taking a cognac turn, so I will ask a question... I'm a very big fan of scotch. Scotch and gin are generally my two favorite libations. I am interested in trying a cognac (or brandy). Is there a reasonably priced, reasonably available cognac someone could recommend? I would hate to buy something that is subpar leading me to swear off cognac in the future. TYIA!

Any Pierre Ferrand that matches your wallet is a welcome choice. At $40 or $500, each bottle is a relatvie bragain and a sound decision.

[TheRiddick]

try Courvoisier or martell thay are my favs i am a big cognac drinker

Nothing personal, but they are the two brands I would NEVER recommend. Courvoisier is nothing but a oak extract, rough and one dimensional. Martell, only in its XO guise, could be enjoyable and still, too much oak and color addition for me.

Remy is the only big house I can ever tolerate, less oak and more fruit definition. But its like saying bundle cigars are great, its still am industrial size production.

Small houses are the way to go, until you try some you will never know what Cognac truly is.

[adampc22]

Nothing personal, but they are the two brands I would NEVER recommend. Courvoisier is nothing but a oak extract, rough and one dimensional. Martell, only in its XO guise, could be enjoyable and still, too much oak and color addition for me.

Remy is the only big house I can ever tolerate, less oak and more fruit definition. But its like saying bundle cigars are great, its still am industrial size production.

Small houses are the way to go, until you try some you will never know what Cognac truly is.

he did say reasonably priced i will change what i said to thay are my fav reasonably priced cognac as that is what i ment

[JohnnyFlake]

After becoming involved with this thread I went through my stash of hidden bottles of libations that I have had for at least 15 years and I came across a bottle of St-Remy French Napoleon Brandy V.S.O.P., Is it a decent brandy?

I also found a bottle of Courvoisier "Le Cognac de Napoleon" V.S. from Jarnac France. What about this one, is it a decent Cognac?

[TheRiddick]

You can buy a nice bottle of Deret for $30+. Will easily beat anything at double, triple and even higher ratio from Courvoisier, Martell, Hennessy and Remy. And he can enjoy that bottle over many a night.

Personally, Courvoisier, Hennessy and Martell are the last bottles I would ever recommend to anyone.

[TheRiddick]

Johnny, sorry we posted at the same time. I only wish you were in Bay Area, I'd be happy to pop a couple of my favorites for you. Courvoisier is definitely not one of them.

If you have a nearby shop with an online catalog I'd be happy to see what you can try. As is, I have a nice VS bottle that I brought back from Boston years ago (a few actually) made by a very small house, quality wise it will easily "kill" anything at double and triple the price from the "industrial" houses, I paid $20 each for them. There are some great buys, but you need to know what to buy.

I also have some Ferrand, Deret and need to re-stock on Gourmel. Are you planning on attending any Bay Area herfs?

If you feel like it, there is a Petrossin Bar right off the main entrance (check in) to Bellagio, piano bar. If you can afford it (and I don't mean it in any derogatory way, economy is tough), they do serve basic Gourmel by the glass. They also allow cigar smoking and I bring my own.

But I am also sure that if they serve Gourmel at Bellagio, then some local liquor shop must have it at retail.

[TheRiddick]

Johnny,

Did some snooping around, here is what I found:

Leopold Gourmel ($50 plus shipping)
http://www.shoppersvineyard.com/product_new.asp?pID=36502

Ferrand sample size, for $2 you can order a few:
http://www.wallywine.com/p-29955-ferrand-cognac-ambre-10yr-50ml-50ml.aspx

Ferrand:
http://www.shoppersvineyard.com/product_new.asp?pID=30377


Spec's in TX has a good selection, look at lowest priced Ferrand and Deret:
http://www.specsonline.com/cgi-bin/snf?body=/cgi-bin/prodlist&index=Liquors|150|COGNAC

Deret:
http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1019482&cid=TPV-Googlebase

[mosesbotbol]

Tesseron is another brand to consider.

[JohnnyFlake]

Johnny, sorry we posted at the same time. I only wish you were in Bay Area, I'd be happy to pop a couple of my favorites for you. Courvoisier is definitely not one of them.

If you have a nearby shop with an online catalog I'd be happy to see what you can try. As is, I have a nice VS bottle that I brought back from Boston years ago (a few actually) made by a very small house, quality wise it will easily "kill" anything at double and triple the price from the "industrial" houses, I paid $20 each for them. There are some great buys, but you need to know what to buy.

I also have some Ferrand, Deret and need to re-stock on Gourmel. Are you planning on attending any Bay Area herfs?

If you feel like it, there is a Petrossin Bar right off the main entrance (check in) to Bellagio, piano bar. If you can afford it (and I don't mean it in any derogatory way, economy is tough), they do serve basic Gourmel by the glass. They also allow cigar smoking and I bring my own.

But I am also sure that if they serve Gourmel at Bellagio, then some local liquor shop must have it at retail.

Thanks for the input!

You did not say anything about the other bottle I have. The St-Remy French Napoleon Brandy V.S.O.P., Is it a decent brandy?

[TheRiddick]

Its certainly better than Courvoisier and Hennessy, IMO. Should be smooth enough and not too oaky. As you said, decent and should go well with a good cigar, I'd actually pick a cigar with a bit of a spicy kick to it.