Freezing Cigars – Does it Work?

[Raralith]

The act of freezing cigars to kill beetles from poor conditions during transit works. The freezing cold kills the larva and beetles, this is not a question but a sound fact. But what about the dormant eggs that are just waiting to hatch and destroy your prized collection, do they die too? Some people say yes, others say no, and what I intend to do in the next week is to prove just this.

Before we begin, please read this article as it turns out Habanos S.A. freezes their cigars before distribution. http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Features/CA_Feature_Basic_Template/0,2344,1613,00.html It is interesting to note though that people still get beetles in their cigars if the temperature is not optimally maintained.

I work at an ice cream plant and our storage freezer stays at a cool and constant -20 degrees Fahrenheit (-28.889 Celsius). I also live in Southern California and while the weather is not hot at the moment, 66 degrees outside at the moment, the inside of my black car certainly does and easily reaches 80-100 degrees. Furthermore, I own a microwave. Here are my three test “subjects,” they are Taboo Value Blend that I’ve kept in my VinoTemp for the last 6 months.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1490

Here’s the procedure:
- 2 cigars will go into the industrial freezer, one for 24 hours, the other for 48 hours.
- 1 cigar will be microwaved for 30 seconds or before the plastic melts, whichever first, full power.
- The cigars will be put into plastic bags and into individual Tupperware containers, and will sit in my car for 5 (but will be kept in my car for 4 weeks after with a weekly update) days.
- Each day, I’ll post the results
- I will take pictures

Problems that may arise:
- If it begins to rain or the weather is not getting hot enough, I most likely will extend the time left in my car. It shouldn’t matter though right? If the freezer kills the eggs, whether it be 5 days or 1 year, no eggs should hatch if each are individually contained.

The schedule will go as follows. Tomorrow morning, March 4th, 2009, I will put the two cigars in the freezer. One will be taken out on the 5th, bagged and put into Tupperware, the other taken out on the 6th, bagged and put into Tupperware. The third cigar will be microwaved tomorrow, the 5th, bagged and put into Tupperware.

Your thoughts? Your bets? Anything that should be added, adjusted, or removed by tomorrow?

[WildBlueSooner]

Interesting...I am curious to see what you find.

[Footbag]

Interesting idea...

It would be very cool if you could get some cigars from a box with visible or known beetle activity. Of course, I wouldn't even let that box in my house.

[Raralith]

SilverFox provided an article (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/aez/41/1/41_87/_article) and it states:

At 20°C, most eggs (>80%) normally hatched within 4 wk, but all eggs died within 6 wk at temperatures less than 18°C.
Because of this, I'll keep the first 5 days updated, and than a weekly update for 4 additional weeks. After 4 weeks and 5 days, I'll disect the cigars to see if anything has hatched.

[hotreds]

Vely intelesting.....

why not remove the cello from the one you are going to nuke- and then just replace it? That way no worries about it melting.

[bobarian]

I dont see a control, you need to add at least one untreated stick. :2

[Raralith]

I dont see a control, you need to add at least one untreated stick. :2

I didn't think of that, thanks. I have only 2 other sticks so I'll take 1 and make it the control. I'll be labeling all 4 and taking pictures before anything goes into the freezer or microwave.

And good idea on the cello too, I'll remove it before I nuke it.

[the nub]

Your test will not prove any theory on freezing or microwaving unless you know for certain all the cigars have beetle eggs.

[Raralith]

Your test will not prove any theory on freezing or microwaving unless you know for certain all the cigars have beetle eggs.

That is what the control cigar is for. Yes, there is a possibility of there having absolutely no eggs whatsoever on any of the tabacoo leaves, but that seems highly unlikely as this is where tabacoo beetles live and thrive. If no beetles come out whatsoever, than I'll go out of my way to purchase infested cigars too and do the whole thing again.

[SeanGAR]

Scientific studies have proven that chill and freezing temperatures (depends on time x temp) kill all forms of the beetles (egg, pupa, beetle).

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/stored/cigarette_beetle.htm

Items can be placed in the refrigerator or freezer (16 days at 36°F, 7 days at 25°F or 32°F for four to seven days) to kill all stages. Place items in a plastic bag to reduce condensation problems during thawing. Heating small quantities of infested material in an oven (190°F for one hour, 120°F for 16 to 24 hours) also is effective.

Why reinvent the wheel?

[GreekGodX]

I like this!! Being a science student, a real life application to an experiment is always exciting.. Definitely need a control and why not do 24hrs then the other at 60-72 hours to see if there is a benefit to an extended amount of freeze time. Obviously there have been studies done but it's much better when we can prove something ourselves.

[promethius]

very interesting, can't wait to hear the results!

[PaleRider]

I just dig Wierd Science! Good luck! and looking forward to the results!

Thanks!:tu

[Beer Doctor]

I dont see a control, you need to add at least one untreated stick. :2

Took the words right out of my mouth:tpd:

[Beer Doctor]

It seems that you are assuming that all three cigars have beetle eggs in them. If all three cigars don't have any beetle eggs hatch by the end of the treatment we can't correctly deduce that the reason there were no beetle hatchings was because of the treatments since there is no positive (or negative) control. Still seems like a cool idea though! Can't wait to see the results.

Personally I think if there are eggs in the cigar the microwaving would have a greater chance of killing the eggs but I have no sound science behind why I think that.

[SilverFox]

Scientific studies have proven that chill and freezing temperatures (depends on time x temp) kill all forms of the beetles (egg, pupa, beetle).

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/stored/cigarette_beetle.htm

Items can be placed in the refrigerator or freezer (16 days at 36°F, 7 days at 25°F or 32°F for four to seven days) to kill all stages. Place items in a plastic bag to reduce condensation problems during thawing. Heating small quantities of infested material in an oven (190°F for one hour, 120°F for 16 to 24 hours) also is effective.

Why reinvent the wheel?

:tpd::tpd:

[Nimbus]

Joe, here is another link/discussion/article for you to read. Frozen vs. Unfrozen (http://groups.google.com.sg/group/alt.smokers.cigars/msg/c6ce558df61003bf?=en&lr=&rnum=5) with taste test. ;)

[Raralith]

It's a bit different when someone says to read a paper and that's it compared to having some fun yourself. I appreciate the ideas so far to better improve this. This isn't going to be submitted into a scientific organization, but you never know, what if we see beetles?

[Beer Doctor]

It's a bit different when someone says to read a paper and that's it compared to having some fun yourself. I appreciate the ideas so far to better improve this. This isn't going to be submitted into a scientific organization, but you never know, what if we see beetles?

Prolly got a bit carried away...my bad:D I'm interested to see if it works! Good luck:tu I'll be following your experiment...

[Raralith]

Cigar #1 "Freeze 24" and cigar #2 "Freeze 48" have been put in the freezer.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1502

Cigar #3 "Nuke Me" and cigar #4 "Control" will be taken care of later when I get home.

[Thrak]

Why doy ou have an exit sign in your freezer?

[St. Lou Stu]

Why doy ou have an exit sign in your freezer?

It shows the way out.

[Raralith]

Why doy ou have an exit sign in your freezer?

The freezer is pretty big so there are a few emergency exits.

[Raralith]

Sorry for the delay, I just got home not too long ago. The microwaved cigar will be done when I get home tomorrow with the 24 hours frozen cigar.

[Hardcz]

sweet.... hopefully you find something, though I'm thinking you may need to find some infested cigars...or manually inject them...

[promethius]

pardon my ignorance but is there a proper way to freeze your cigars that have been delayed in shipping? just to make sure before they enter the humi? Or is this over cautious? thanks!

[Raralith]

Sorry for the delay but my Internet is down and I can't upload pictures from my phone. Full update when it's up.

[O-Danger]

I would have loved to see you use a regular freezer as we don't all have access to industrial strength

[Raralith]

It turns out my modem was the problem and not my internet. I've already started taking pictures so I'll do a full recap when I wake up tomorrow.

[SixPackSunday]

That is what the control cigar is for. Yes, there is a possibility of there having absolutely no eggs whatsoever on any of the tabacoo leaves, but that seems highly unlikely as this is where tabacoo beetles live and thrive. If no beetles come out whatsoever, than I'll go out of my way to purchase infested cigars too and do the whole thing again.


how much would you like to pay for beetles cigars? :ss

[karmaz00]

cant wait to see what happens

[Raralith]

Sorry for the delay ya'll. I've got the pictures up and ready, and I didn't start the experiment until my modem came in yesterday. The cigars have been waiting in the VinoTemp for some future happy times.

Now, continuing:
Microwaving #4 Nuke Me
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1561

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1563

Taking this out, it was quite hot and soft. It smelled and felt almost like the nub of a smoked cigar - very musty, very soft. No damage that I could see.

Here are the cigars wrapped in sandwich bags and awaiting tuperware, my car, and the hot Southern Californian sun.
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1564

And the car of course:
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1565

[Raralith]

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1568

Day 1
I couldn't find my tupperware so I'll drop Target and buy 4 boxes. Cigars have no beetles though, but at 100+ degrees, we'll see how long until something happens.

[Raralith]

Day 2
I picked up some tupperware and threw the cigars in. After a day in the car, here's a look at the cigars in their individual containers.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1584

And how hot was it when I checked?
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1586
Not quite triple digits but close enough.

Here is a shot of all the cigars individually. No bugs so far, but I'll be reporting for the first week than weekly after. Sorry on the last picture, it was pretty bad and I didn't notice until just now.

24 hour freeze
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1587

48 hour freeze
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1588

Control
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1589

[Raralith]

Nuke Me
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1590
Bad picture of that and no, it is not warped!

[acarr]

I am just curious. Couldn't the heat inside the car and the bags with little oxygen kill any beetles that might be present?

[Raralith]

I am just curious. Couldn't the heat inside the car and the bags with little oxygen kill any beetles that might be present?

I'll look for the report again, but I remember reading that 160 degrees for 2 hours is enough to kill beetles; 100 degrees is definately not enough. As for oxygen, I've seen beetles hatch in alumiun tubes which also can have a good seal. The bags though do have air ciruclation though so that's not a worry.

[dabigdog]

Looking forward to how this turns out

[goalie204]

Scientific studies have proven that chill and freezing temperatures (depends on time x temp) kill all forms of the beetles (egg, pupa, beetle).

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/urban/stored/cigarette_beetle.htm

Items can be placed in the refrigerator or freezer (16 days at 36°F, 7 days at 25°F or 32°F for four to seven days) to kill all stages. Place items in a plastic bag to reduce condensation problems during thawing. Heating small quantities of infested material in an oven (190°F for one hour, 120°F for 16 to 24 hours) also is effective.

Why reinvent the wheel?


how cold is a typical home freezer? Like if there is just holes how long would i freeze?

[Raralith]

Fighting with my phone because the pictures aren't working right. Here's a temp shot of day three, no bugs in any of them.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1608
It's beginning to cool down here for 90 degress should do.

[Raralith]

Sorry for the lack of updates. I've been having an uphill battle with computer related products as of late. So far, the tempeture has been 95+ for the last few days except for two days ago when it was very cloudy at about 70 degrees. I'll get updates as soon as I figure why Vista doesn't recognized my iPhone. No beetles though.

[mrreindeer]

Awesome experiment Joseph. :tu

So what were your findings?

Why doy ou have an exit sign in your freezer?

It shows the way out.

:r:r

With L.A. so full of thieves, you're lucky that nobody stole your sticks, setting them out on your car like that.... :D

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1584

[Raralith]

I'm taking the pictures on my iPhone but I'm having computer problems. Using my work laptop now, but for some reason it's not syncing with it and I can't install iTunes (company policy).

The cigars though have no bugs, but it can take up to 4 weeks to see some.

[mrreindeer]

I'm taking the pictures on my iPhone but I'm having computer problems. Using my work laptop now, but for some reason it's not syncing with it and I can't install iTunes (company policy).

The cigars though have no bugs, but it can take up to 4 weeks to see some.

So, Joseph, what you're saying is that your computer has bugs but the cigars don't.....I got it.

:dance::dance: