is it wrong to withold a source?

[barbourjay]

i'm not even talking about CC's in this case. some other person on another forum saw me post about opus being in stock locally and the issue i have is that i've had sources ruined just as recent as 2 months ago by people i don't personally know but ran into and told them where get some HTF's. i had a local source who use to hook me up and call me every time something came in and charge me a reasonable price. i gave this source to a few people to get a few things and it turns out one of them runs a website selling opus and other HTF's for huge amounts and now the source doesn't even call me because the other guy will pay 20$ for a single robusto opus.

so what do i do when someone asks me who i don't know? i tell them i'd rather not out of protection of my source but they get mad and tell me i have a poor attitude. yet they have hardly any posts or reputation on the forums and just expect me to trust them 100%. is that right? am i caring to much about this? i got called a f-stick recently for politely declining to tell the party where i get them from now and i've never even met or seen this guy on the forums. thoughts? doesn't the same apply to CC sources? BTW, this person is not on these forums.

[piperman]

If I had a source and someone wanted it, it all depends. But I would not worry one bit if I said no and was called names, I don't even know them so why care. So no it is not wrong.

[hotreds]

No- it's up to you to do with your source what you want. If the guy calls you names for doing so that only proves how right you were not to give it up. On the other hand- and I'm not saying you do or did this- some BOTLs really need to cool their jets about bragging about their latest pick-ups- esp. with CCs. After all, these ARE illegal here- and in theory should not be any anyone's hands that lives in the USA.

But- to answer your question succinctly: No.

[GKitty]

No- it's up to you to do with your source what you want. If the guy calls you names for doing so that only proves how right you were not to give it up.

:tpd:

[Footbag]

Nothing wrong at all with it, especially if stock qty. is an issue.

[Smokin Gator]

If it were me... yes... you would be wrong to withhold said source. Otherwise, no, it would be fine. Plus, if they throw down a name then you know you did right.

[barbourjay]

If it were me... yes... you would be wrong to withhold said source. Otherwise, no, it would be fine. Plus, if they throw down a name they you know you did right.


i have no problems sharing sources with you if you asked. i know you or at least i know of you and your amazing BBQ :ss

[zmancbr]

I think you have every right to not share sources in that case. The HTF fuente stuff is HTF for a reason and some joe off the street should not expect to get something just handed to him without earning it through reputation.

If he called you some nice choice names, then he proved you right for not giving him the source! :2

[Stogieboy]

It is only wrong if you are withholding your source from me. :ss
Otherwise, your source is your source.

[tobii3]

No- it's up to you to do with your source what you want. If the guy calls you names for doing so that only proves how right you were not to give it up.

:tpd:

Now, witholding info from your fellow inmates is subject to scrutiny, of course....:D

[RevSmoke]

That is kind of like fishing holes. I might take someone there, but I don't just give secrets away.

I told one guy about a great quiet little stream. I get there one day, my day off no less - and there he is with three of his buddies. He gives me the, "Hey Todd, um, sorry to say this, but we were here first. You're going to need to find a different spot."

We were talking later about some walleye fishing. He asked where I was fishing. I told him, "Oh, a local lake."

"Which one?" he asks.

I simply smiled and said, "Hey, I had to work to discover it myself, and I only get one day off a week. You have two. Do a little trial and error."

He called me some names too.

Just smile.

[Smokin Gator]

That is kind of like fishing holes. I might take someone there, but I don't just give secrets away.

I told one guy about a great quiet little stream. I get there one day, my day off no less - and there he is with three of his buddies. He gives me the, "Hey Todd, um, sorry to say this, but we were here first. You're going to need to find a different spot."

We were talking later about some walleye fishing. He asked where I was fishing. I told him, "Oh, a local lake."

"Which one?" he asks.

I simply smiled and said, "Hey, I had to work to discover it myself, and I only get one day off a week. You have two. Do a little trial and error."

He called me some names too.

Just smile.

Exactly... I have a very nearly same story when I was guiding. This one was on TV and I went back to the spot and saw the camera man in the spot. I nearly jumped off of my boat and strangled him.

[M1903A1]

It's your source, you did the legwork to find it. And, a source is "unequal information", if you will...it's valuable because it's not common. Once others start to know it, it declines in value fast.

Why should you be under any obligation to give it up to just anybody? That's like giving away money to a stranger. You worked for it, why should you just give it away?

[Skywalker]

As long as you share them with me and no one else... I won't call you names!!!:D

Seriously, your sources are yours to give or keep!!! Name calling is for the immature!!!

[karmaz00]

i would have no problem sharing sources....but some are better left unsaid :)

[68TriShield]

I'd would not withhold from a friend/BOTL.
It's obvious that you sell some cigars,most of your comments are from buyers.All positive comments I might add:)
I personally have bought some things from you in the past and was always happy with the transaction,so that's not a issue at all.
I'm just curious if your trading plays into your question.

Please don't answer if you don't want to my friend :)

[barbourjay]

i would have no problem sharing sources....but some are better left unsaid :)

you would share sources with someone you've never met or someone who is a total newb with minimal participation in the community?


as stated above, i have no problems giving these sources out to people i know i can trust.

[tunes]

I recently asked a member of this forum for a source for some cc’s. Having never purchased them before, I was a little reluctant. Being new to this site and all, I also told them that I fully understood if they didn’t want to offer any assistance. As it turned out, they were more than happy to oblige. Had they not, I wouldn’t have started a rant or name calling. So I guess what I’m saying is it’s all up to you and how you feel about the person that’s asking - hindsight, after the name calling, you did the right thing! God I love this place. :tu

you can always point them to CI...

[barbourjay]

I'd would not withhold from a friend/BOTL.
It's obvious that you sell some cigars,most of your comments are from buyers.All positive comments I might add:)
I personally have bought some things from you in the past and was always happy with the transaction,so that's not a issue at all.
I'm just curious if your trading plays into your question.

Please don't answer if you don't want to my friend :)

i would answer but call me slow, i don't really follow your question ;)

it's not direct enough for my young brain to process.

[Cyanide]

I work in a field where I get alot of opportunities to work 24 hour shifts in small towns on the weekends for thousands of dollars a shift (which helps to pay off my education bills and keep my family from wanting). During the week, I work at a military clinic. I was recently asked by one of my fellow military clinicians at the military clinic where I worked on the weekends. I told him. Next thing I know, I find he is working the shifts that used to by mine to pick up; further, he has trumped up a bogus reason why he can't leave on taskings during the week and told this to our commanding officer. Now, I am getting tasked all over the place, am missing out on many weekend shifts because I am gone and he is fully benefitting financially from this.

So, once bitten, twice shy. If the other person has not earned access to that "special information" then you are likely harming yourself with no chance of reciprocation by giving out the information. If the person gets angry, then likely they would never have earned access to that information (and probably would never deserve it). If they graciously accept the decline, then they may, at a later date, earn that information.

So, not telling them, is completely legit, without a relationship of trust existing prior.

Thats just my view

John

[68TriShield]

i would answer but call me slow, i don't really follow your question ;)

it's not direct enough for my young brain to process.

Okay...you *sell* quite a few cigars,why I don't know or care.
What I wonder is,has giving up a source ever soured one of your sales,and is that why you're asking our opinion?

Disclaimer:barbourjay's sales are top notch.

[Only Fuentes]

When it comes to Opus/HTF Fuentes: it doesn't take alot to find sources for yourself. I wouldn't give up a local B/M, etc... because inevitably the source WILL get ruined everytime! When I'm asked I give the same standard 3sources without hesitation: Holts, TS and Famous. At least I know they stick to the limit policies and have enough stock that they usually don't dry up so quickly. Giving out HTF Fuente sources is like telling your salary to your coworkers; it will only cause bad felings in the end. I have aquired quite a few sources from here and CS and I don't want them ruined. I bought some Opus from you as well at just about MSRP which was more than fair in my book. I don't think I've ever seen anyone give you a bad comment. The person who got pissed at you can go pound sand as I think your sales are well above the board. They are your sources to do with as you please and I say loose lips sink sources ( or something like that :ss)

[barbourjay]

Okay...you *sell* quite a few cigars,why I don't know or care.
What I wonder is,has giving up a source ever soured one of your sales,and is that why you're asking our opinion?

Disclaimer:barbourjay's sales are top notch.


never has soured one of my sales. i try my best to fill WTB's and do box splits (like the tatuaje monster one i did which is half my feedback).

i was asking peoples opinion to see what the proper way to address this situation is.

[68TriShield]

never has soured one of my sales. i try my best to fill WTB's and do box splits (like the tatuaje monster one i did which is half my feedback).

i was asking peoples opinion to see what the proper way to address this situation in.
Bottom line is,you know who your friends are.Not to be callous but they are all that matters :)

[pnoon]

never has soured one of my sales. i try my best to fill WTB's and do box splits (like the tatuaje monster one i did which is half my feedback).

i was asking peoples opinion to see what the proper way to address this situation in.

You have received pretty much a consensus here. And I agree.

So to answer your question, use a phrase made well-known by D.A.R.E.

Just say No.

And if they don't like it, coin another phrase I use often (and is a favorite of LasciviousXXX's):

Tough Noogies !


:2

[Genetic Defect]

I see, the one source you used to get reasonable prices on and then pad the price and sell them, so this guy took money out of your hand. and you rather not have your supplemental income cut even smaller.

:salute:

[barbourjay]

Bottom line is,you know who your friends are.Not to be callous but they are all that matters :)

word, i don't think there is a person i've met on here who i wouldn't call trustworthy. those people tend not to stick around.

[68TriShield]

I see, the one source you used to get reasonable prices on and then pad the price and sell them, so this guy took money out of your hand. and you rather not have your supplemental income cut even smaller.

:salute:

I don't think so Perry,not at all.

[barbourjay]

I see, the one source you used to get reasonable prices on and then pad the price and sell them, so this guy took money out of your hand. and you rather not have your supplemental income cut even smaller.

:salute:

that's a pretty big accusation. i don't pad pricing and i don't sell cigars as supplemental income. if i did there would be tons upon tons of for sale threads by me. ask some of the people who have herfed and met with me and seen my collection. assumptions are just awesome.

but whatever, i did bring up the subject but it was you who decide to run your mouth trying to stir up something (and i add this isn't the fist time i've seen it on this board).

[Genetic Defect]

that's a pretty big accusation. i don't pad pricing and i don't sell cigars as supplemental income. if i did there would be tons upon tons of for sale threads by me. ask some of the people who have herfed and met with me and seen my collection. assumptions are just awesome.

but whatever, i did bring up the subject but it was you who decide to run your mouth trying to stir up something (and i add this isn't the fist time i've seen it on this board).

It sounded harsher then I meant, I could see not wanting to give out a source due to losing money either with sales or because someone will pay the higher price. You did state that about the earlier source. :tu

[Genetic Defect]

I don't think so Perry,not at all.

I see I worded it craptasticly

[pnoon]

that's a pretty big accusation. i don't pad pricing and i don't sell cigars as supplemental income. if i did there would be tons upon tons of for sale threads by me. ask some of the people who have herfed and met with me and seen my collection. assumptions are just awesome.

but whatever, i did bring up the subject but it was you who decide to run your mouth trying to stir up something (and i add this isn't the fist time i've seen it on this board).

It sounded harsher then I meant, I could see not wanting to give out a source due to losing money either with sales or because someone will pay the higher price. You did state that about the earlier source. :tu
I'm going to step in here and say, that at times, Perry can be . . . well, Perry. ;)
Jeremy, I can certainly see how you read his post but I honestly believe it was not meant as a slam against you but support for you not wanting to divulge sources.




Group hug !

[Mugen910]

give up on NCs and keep CC sources private..problem solved :tu

[barbourjay]

It sounded harsher then I meant, I could see not wanting to give out a source due to losing money either with sales or because someone will pay the higher price. You did state that about the earlier source. :tu

yup but it's not about losing the money as i said before. it's about not wanting to pay 20$ for a robusto because someone else who is selling for a profit is willing to go that high. there is a line to be drawn and i feel 1-2$ above msrp on somethings is reasonable. double to triple is not.

[Cyanide]

by the way....can you set me up with a good NC source? Mine isn't as good as yours.

LOL

[Genetic Defect]

I'm going to step in here and say, that at times, Perry can be . . . well, Perry. ;)
Jeremy, I can certainly see how you read his post but I honestly believe it was not meant as a slam against you but support for you not wanting to divulge sources.




Group hug !

I pmd Jeremy with an apology. You are right Peter, and sometimes it sucks being a blockhead.

again Sorry Jeremy.

[pnoon]

I pmd Jeremy with an apology. You are right Peter, and sometimes it sucks being a blockhead.

again Sorry Jeremy.
On the contrary, Perry. An apology wasn't needed but I am sure it was appreciated. I think, in this case, electronic communication betrayed the intent of the message.

[barbourjay]

On the contrary, Perry. An apology wasn't needed but I am sure it was appreciated. I think, in this case, electronic communication betrayed the intent of the message.

totally agree here. i see it all the time which is why i brought up the assumptions thing. hard to convey while typing a lot of the range of human emotion and thought.

[barbourjay]

by the way....can you set me up with a good NC source? Mine isn't as good as yours.

LOL

yes but i don't believe they ship to canada :D

[fuubar]

I know its a little late, but from the other side of the fence (the guy with no sources of any kind) I still agree with everyone here. If you know someone is trustworthy then sharing sources is fine but there is no need to risk shooting yourself in the foot with a complete stranger.

If you want to help out a stranger, then offer to pick up a few sticks and sell them to him at the price you paid. He gets the sticks for a good price and you keep your sources safe. Everyone wins.

[livwire68]

Pick and choose and be very picky! If you are sure then then hook them up! If they correspond continually with you or come back for another season let your guard down some! You cant be the "big shot" to everyone. I have connections which I never use, I still just dont feel right. I try to never take advantage, no matter how much I "want"! In due time I will but they will not be forgotten!

[Tio Gato]

If you're gonna post a good find people are gonna ask where. It's human nature.
Don't worry if they call you names. Sticks and stones, heh?

Sometimes I think of the Wizard of Oz. Remember the line "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
Sometimes we are that man, other times it's someone calling us names, other times it's people questioning our motives, beliefs, etc.
Like the internet, the "curtain" provides a place to hide behind until it is drawn gently back.

Pay no attention to those that would get your blood pressure up.
Life's too short.;)

[DPD6030]

If it is someone I don't know or others don't know and can't recommend them then no, keep it to yourself. If you know them personally then I say go ahead. If they screw things up for you then you lost your source. I've shared sources but everyone knows it anyways. :2

[Snake Hips]

I never just give out Habanos sources unless it's someone I know at least pretty well from the forums. I've seen a barage of new guys asking me for them the last couple of months on various fora, and how I respond depends on how they approach me. Most of the time they just ask me for a clue, so what I do is offer to guide them away from sheisters as long as they do their own footwork to find vendors, explaining that sources are earned because they were hard to get and because they get spoiled or overfished.

Sometimes they straight-up ask me where to get them, and I tell them exactly what they should do. Contact Habanos, S.A. and get a list of their distributors, and painstakingly contact each of them about each vendor they want to know about, then order something from any of them to see if they're any good. If they have the balls to come up to me with 2 posts and basically say "Hey wheres the best internet source for real CC?" then they have the balls to find out the hard way like people used to, and that's spending months tracking the legitimacy of sources through the offical supply chain.

[piperman]

I never just give out Habanos sources unless it's someone I know at least pretty well from the forums. I've seen a barage of new guys asking me for them the last couple of months on various fora, and how I respond depends on how they approach me. Most of the time they just ask me for a clue, so what I do is offer to guide them away from sheisters as long as they do their own footwork to find vendors, explaining that sources are earned because they were hard to get and because they get spoiled or overfished.

Sometimes they straight-up ask me where to get them, and I tell them exactly what they should do. Contact Habanos, S.A. and get a list of their distributors, and painstakingly contact each of them about each vendor they want to know about, then order something from any of them to see if they're any good. If they have the balls to come up to me with 2 posts and basically say "Hey wheres the best internet source for real CC?" then they have the balls to find out the hard way like people used to, and that's spending months tracking the legitimacy of sources through the offical supply chain.


Damit and I was just gonna ask you where you got yours.:lv just kidding

[RockonBigB]

I want to add that I do not have a B&M that stocks Opus nearby and the shop 2 hours away marks them up pretty good. So someone taking a good source and marking them sky high and reselling is touchy for me. In fact, I have paid way too much for Opus before because I could not get them any other way. Whereas, I have met some great BOTL here and on other boards that have sold to me at MSRP plus shipping:). So to me, it benefits the whole community more when people protect sources.

[DrDubzz]

if you don't know them, F em

[Smokin Gator]

I pmd Jeremy with an apology. You are right Peter, and sometimes it sucks being a blockhead.

again Sorry Jeremy.

Hey brother... I gotta tell you I appreciate that. Not saying you were right or wrong or in the middle. It just means a lot to me that at times we take a step back and say hey... I may have hurt a brother's feelings whether I meant to or not.

Thanks...

[neoflex]

I would say judge it on a situation to situation basis. I have had vendors that I dealt with in the past that had really great pricing and shared the source and next thing you know the word spread like wild fire and than their pricing was reported to the manufacturer which in turned made them have to adjust their pricing because word must have gotten to other vendors and they cried about it which ruined it for not only me but everyone else. If I find really crazy deals I normally keep them to myself or only share it with close friends and tell them to keep it quiet too. I have also had vendors hook me up with fantastic pricing and tell me to keep quiet about the pricing and not share the deal they gave me so they in turn do no run into the situation described above. If a vendor has something hard to find and their pricing is retail I have no problem sharing the source especially if they do online sales. If they don't I do not mind working out a deal where I pick the sticks up for them if the vendor is not local to them etc etc. But if they sell a 5er/box to someone and they sell it online for an over inflated price, well I do not see how I could be held accountable. They chose to make the sale so they in turn would be just as guilty. You can't control what people do with the product after it is sold and they made there money on it so I do not see how a vendor can get pissed at you for something that a person whom they sold their product to did after the fact. Yes, you may have tipped the person off to your vendor but that by no means gives the vendor the right to make you guilty by association IMHO. I can see how that would make you very leary sharing your sources though and like you would probably keep my mouth shut after having it happen one or more times. I just think it is wrong of the vendor to beat you up for it. If the person asking does not get the answer they are looking for and in turn reams you out for it, well that person should be addressing other issues other than acquiring fine cigars and if that is their reaction, than I would also think that they are the very shady salesman that you are trying to avoid tipping off. So what vendors do you deal with? Huh, Huh??? J/K!:D

[RottenZombie]

No I don't think it's wrong.I think that it's personal choice,and if someone gets mad about it tough.

[wrench turner 85]

No- it's up to you to do with your source what you want. If the guy calls you names for doing so that only proves how right you were not to give it up. On the other hand- and I'm not saying you do or did this- some BOTLs really need to cool their jets about bragging about their latest pick-ups- esp. with CCs. After all, these ARE illegal here- and in theory should not be any anyone's hands that lives in the USA.

But- to answer your question succinctly: No.
:tpd:

[nozero]

Your source, your call.
:2

[beamish]

Your source, your call.
:2

couldnt agree more

[totallytentative]

My personal call is that it would be a situation-dependant thing.

If the source is nothing special and exclusive access isn't an issue, then sure, why not?

If the source is something exclusive and a bit of an "insider tip" that gives you an edge that would be eroded by spreading the word around everywhere, then I would defer to those that say, "It's your source.". The fishing hole analogy is great.

Basically I would let someone in on some very valuable information if I have a good and familiar relationship where you trust this person, it's okay to tell him not to tell anyone else, and where it would be okay to call him out on it and say, "Hey man, did you tell anyone about that or something?!?" Harder to do this with a stranger or casual acquaintance.

[Stonewall]

It's your info and you can choose who to share it with I wold not worry about what anyone thought.
Josh

[ChicagoWhiteSox]

No, its not wrong.

[Hitagain]

I agree that it is your source and your right not to reveal it. Not like I would know anything, as new as I am, I'm happy when I find something local at MSRP. I did ask someone local to my area when some local B&Ms where around here and he was happy to let me know, I may at some point down the line ask for someones source and if they wouldn't reveal it, I would at least hope they offer to make a buy for me, but if they didn't I would completely understand....

[groogs]

It's your info and you can choose who to share it with I wold not worry about what anyone thought.
Josh

:tpd: Your source is your source, do with it what you will.

[Wolfgang]

I wont give my sources out to anyone! My family asked how I obtained a box of HDM Des Dieux and my only answer the whole week was " from a friend". I know what I had to do to be let on to these sources and there is no chance in H-E-double hockeysticks Im giving it up. They can order through me no charge whatsoever and I will ship to them. (maybe skim a stick or two off the top)

[Sandman]

I used to, now I don't. It's unbelievable how ungrateful some have been when I have helped them out. Never did give out a source that was beyond the obvious though. It was amazing at the old board, there would be banner ads flashing all day, and people would still be wondering where to source cigars. :confused:

[ucla695]

I don't think it wrong to keep sources closely held. It's a privilege, not a right.

[s15driftking]

i have encountered similar situations.

I tell people who deserve to be told. I NEVER feel obligated to tell osmeone just because they ask. You wouldn't give away business tactics and secrets to those hwo could potentially ruin you and your livelyhood would you?

I know "sharing cigar sources" is a much milder example... but just think about it. Besides, if you are asking this community, it sounds like you didn't want to tell him in the first place. That is called a "gut feeling"

[ronhoffman2]

keep it to yourself, especially from schmoes who have 1 post and it's asking you where to get your smokes from.

[shilala]

I share most everything eventually.
I don't think there's anything wrong with staying tight-lipped about a source, but I always feel guilty about it.
I figure if I feel guilty, it's wrong. When I tire of feeling guilty, I cough it up. :)

[s0leful0ne]

i agree that there is no problem . You've done the footwork (or phonework) to find them and have worked hard to develop a relationship with them.

I'm even tightlipped about the Asylum. I pre-screen the friends I invite on here :)

[SeanGAR]

I know this one guy ... used to be gurhka smoker ... he subtly asked in a post where one might get some of the forbidden fruit.

Did I feel bad when I told him? No ... he seemed like a nice guy from my limited online interactions with him.

So I told him .... www.papayas-r-us.com.

Now his collection of papayas is truly impressive. His buying hasn't interfered with mine because he graduated to sites that I have not used: www.ripe-red-papayas.com, www.nuthin-but-papayas.net and www.aged-dunhill-payapas-for-all.com.

But in your case I wouldn't sweat not telling somebody. They don't understand, well that's just too FB.

[Steve]

Mucho UNcool!

BTW, where was that fabulous poon spot and what tide was it? J/K

:ss


Exactly... I have a very nearly same story when I was guiding. This one was on TV and I went back to the spot and saw the camera man in the spot. I nearly jumped off of my boat and strangled him.

[Smokin Gator]

Mucho UNcool!

BTW, where was that fabulous poon spot and what tide was it? J/K

:ss

Just for you brother...

This is a deep hole on the north side of Pine Island right off of the Intracoastal.Last half hour of the outgoing and first half hour of the incoming;)

But it was a redfish spot.

[s15driftking]

I share most everything eventually.


well put, with time people may become deserving etc.

[Bubba - NJ]

Not at all . One source ruined is one too many ! :ss

[RGD.]

. . . my young brain to process.


It all gets easier to avoid answering the question when you get old. "Um I got those from . . . now lemme think - what the hell is that name - crap I forgot - it will come to me one day - damn."

And people believe you . . . cause your old.

Most of the time though I sound like that when I'm seriously trying to answer the question - :ss


Ron

[Steve]

It's been a while since I've gotten down around there, but there are quite a few good spots down around there as I recall. I still figure you and I will have to do a recon one of these days!


Just for you brother...

This is a deep hole on the north side of Pine Island right off of the Intracoastal.Last half hour of the outgoing and first half hour of the incoming;)

But it was a redfish spot.

[spectrrr]

Simple rule of thumb. "If you have to ask......"

Simple answer too - you have a friend that is willing to do YOU (and you only) OCCASIONAL favors. Simple as that. now you're not being a fukstick for not telling them, its simply a problem that your source is limited and not open for business with other people. Add in something about being paranoid too if need be :)
That line or random variations of it can apply to CC and NC sources alike.

Generally if someone is a decent friend, I'll offer to pick it up for them... but they're still not getting my source. Source only goes to people that I REALLY know.

[Rabidsquirrel]

It was amazing at the old board, there would be banner ads flashing all day, and people would still be wondering where to source cigars. :confused:

I think the biggest problem with that is most people, including me, have no idea if they were legit. I figure some day I'll either take a chance with one of them, or someone will clue me in on where to go. Doesn't really make a difference to me, I'm enjoying what I have now.