Advice needed - Daughter thinking about service

[Smokin Gator]

Turning to my brothers and sisters for some advice here. I am not very well versed about the military. My dad had a kidney disease and couldn't serve. My brother just missed the Vietnam draft. Other than back in WWII etc few in my family have served.

My daughter is a junior in college. She has really done well and is a semester ahead of schedule to graduate. She is majoring in International Studies and has always wanted to work for the government. Her dream job has always been at an embassy in Western Europe. She is a great kid, has never been a problem, works a job, goes to school full time... just a joy to have as a daughter.

About a month ago she calls and asks me what I think about her going into the service after she graduates. I told her I thought that would be a great idea and that I would be very proud of her.

She goes and talks to a recruiter and he kind of sells her on flying. She has terrible eyesight and I told her she needed to go back and talk to them about areas in intelligence.

She had a couple of hour meeting with a Marine recruiter last week and has some info on intelligence positions in the Marines. I told here she needs to talk to other branches as well.

I am so ignorant about this whole thing I can't even hold a conversation on it... I would like to offer some guidance but don't have the knowledge. I know some of you do... so help me here brothers and sisters.

[macpappy]

Tell her to also consider the U.S. Coast Guard. I served for 21 years and while it has focused more on its law enforcement and wartime missions over the past 15 years, it is still a humanitarian service at heart and that is what still attracts most people to the service.

It's also a small service and that means just about everyone gains experience in all the missions. I was involved in everything from arctic icebreaking, search and rescue, environmental clean-up, maritime safety, law enforcement and military readiness. It all depends on the main mission of the units you get assigned to.

It was a good career and I only retired because I was being transferred to Washington, D.C.

[tobii3]

her dream job has always been at an embassy in western europe.

Where is Chen when you need him?? He was taking the FSO exam.....

[theycallmedan'lboone]

If she is set on flying, HOLY CRAP NOLAN RYAN IS FAT!, sorry he was on espn... if she is set on flying The United States AF is the way to go, however you mentioned bad eyesight, pretty much a no go.
The AF is going to be much more.. like a corporate job, office mostly, cake hours(mostly) easy deployments(mostly) I have several friends, officer and enlisted in the Intel field and they love it.
Army is going to be like the Army, and can't really speak for it other than, what I've heard/witnessed.
*** make sure she uses her degree***whatever that means officer, higher enlisted rank, she earned it, use it.

[Smokin Gator]

If she is set on flying The United States AF is the way to go, however you mentioned bad eyesight, pretty much a no go.

I think she realizes that there is no way she is going to be flying. I really don't even think she would want to. I think it just sounded neat for a little while. I think she realizes that with her languages (she speaks Spanish, French, some Italian, and some German) along with the International Studies degree that intelligence is a good fit. She also has pretty good technical/computer skills.

[tobii3]

I think she realizes that with her languages (she speaks Spanish, French, some Italian, and some German) along with the International Studies degree that intelligence is a good fit. She also has pretty good technical/computer skills.

No sh*t??

screw Intel....point her towards CA/PSYOPS.

No kidding.

[Smokin Gator]

No sh*t??

screw Intel....point her towards CA/PSYOPS.

No kidding.

Sorry to be so ignorant... but what is that?

[bvilchez]

She had a couple of hour meeting with a Marine recruiter last week and has some info on intelligence positions in the Marines. I told here she needs to talk to other branches as well.



I can only give you the Marine perspective on this issue. Being a prior recruiter in the Marine Corps myself, he can not promise her anything unless it's in writing!!!! She wants to speak to the OSO (Officer Selection Office). If you have a degree, see the OSO, and decide to join then you'll be accepting what we know to be a commissioning. Officers get commissioned in the military. Downfall with the Marines is that you can have a degree in Biochemist Engineering and end up being commissioned in Supply.

If she wants to go enlisted (99% are usually high school grads) then she can get more of an AREA of what she qualifies for....not an exact job. For example, I enlisted in '96 under Communications. I could have been a Radioman, or a satellite operator but I ended up becoming a switchboard operator. Not my choice but I chose Communications, not the exact job.

I would advise her from my position to look into federal positions where she is more prone to use her degree and do what she really wants to do.

The federal government has a program called STEP (Student Temporary Employment Program). It is for individuals in school who can apply for part/full time jobs while currently in school. Upon graduation she can directly get hired by that federal agency if she likes and has more opportunity and has a foot in the door.

Feel free to PM me for any more info on questions you may have.

[tobii3]

my apologies...I've been in since G-d was a Corporal...

CA - Civil Affairs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Affairs#United_States_Army)

According to the U.S. Army, "Civil Affairs units help military commanders by working with civil authorities and civilian populations in the commander’s area of operations to lessen the impact of military operations on them during peace, contingency operations and declared war." With their expertise in civil matters, they are the principle unit in assisting a commander in the conduct of civil-military operations.

PSYOPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSYOPS)

Psychological Operations (PSYOP, PSYOPS) are techniques used by military and police forces to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, and behavior. Target audiences can be governments, organizations, groups, and individuals, and are used in order to induce confessions, or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives.

Hope that helps!!!

[Smokin Gator]

I can only give you the Marine perspective on this issue. Being a prior recruiter in the Marine Corps myself, he can not promise her anything unless it's in writing!!!! She wants to speak to the OSO (Officer Selection Office). If you have a degree, see the OSO, and decide to join then you'll be accepting what we know to be a commissioning. Officers get commissioned in the military. Downfall with the Marines is that you can have a degree in Biochemist Engineering and end up being commissioned in Supply.

If she wants to go enlisted (99% are usually high school grads) then she can get more of an AREA of what she qualifies for....not an exact job. For example, I enlisted in '96 under Communications. I could have been a Radioman, or a satellite operator but I ended up becoming a switchboard operator. Not my choice but I chose Communications, not the exact job.

I would advise her from my position to look into federal positions where she is more prone to use her degree and do what she really wants to do.

The federal government has a program called STEP (Student Temporary Employment Program). It is for individuals in school who can apply for part/full time jobs while currently in school. Upon graduation she can directly get hired by that federal agency if she likes and has more opportunity and has a foot in the door.

Feel free to PM me for any more info on questions you may have.

She is definitely not going in until after she has her degree. She is going to a University in France this summer. When she gets back she will only have about 20 hours left to finish her bachelors.

I will have her look into the STEP program. Thanks for the help offer. I am sure I will PM you as I have more questions.

[Smoking Dragon]

I am in the Army National Guard. I think that it's the best way to go. If it's something that she doesn't like, then it's only 1 weekend a month and summer camp. If it's something that she likes then she can join the AGR program. Which is like active duty with all pay and benefits while staying at home and not being transfered all over the world at a whim. If more detailed information is needed please PM me.

Sarge

[taltos]

With that language background she should look at the Diplomatic Service as well as some of the letter agencies such as CIA and NSA in addition to the military and see where the best fit would be. Diplomatic Service and CIA would be her best bet at working within an embassy as far as I can see.

[Mugen910]

I can only give you the Marine perspective on this issue. Being a prior recruiter in the Marine Corps myself, he can not promise her anything unless it's in writing!!!! She wants to speak to the OSO (Officer Selection Office). If you have a degree, see the OSO, and decide to join then you'll be accepting what we know to be a commissioning. Officers get commissioned in the military. Downfall with the Marines is that you can have a degree in Biochemist Engineering and end up being commissioned in Supply.

If she wants to go enlisted (99% are usually high school grads) then she can get more of an AREA of what she qualifies for....not an exact job. For example, I enlisted in '96 under Communications. I could have been a Radioman, or a satellite operator but I ended up becoming a switchboard operator. Not my choice but I chose Communications, not the exact job.

I would advise her from my position to look into federal positions where she is more prone to use her degree and do what she really wants to do.

The federal government has a program called STEP (Student Temporary Employment Program). It is for individuals in school who can apply for part/full time jobs while currently in school. Upon graduation she can directly get hired by that federal agency if she likes and has more opportunity and has a foot in the door.

Feel free to PM me for any more info on questions you may have.

With that language background she should look at the Diplomatic Service as well as some of the letter agencies such as CIA and NSA in addition to the military and see where the best fit would be. Diplomatic Service and CIA would be her best bet at working within an embassy as far as I can see.


Go Marine Corps Officer or do what Paul suggested...Don't allow her to forgo her talents and education as an enlisted personnel.

[tobii3]

I thought we WERE talking about Officer Career Management Fields??

[bvilchez]

She is definitely not going in until after she has her degree. She is going to a University in France this summer. When she gets back she will only have about 20 hours left to finish her bachelors.

I will have her look into the STEP program. Thanks for the help offer. I am sure I will PM you as I have more questions.

Well if she's going to France then have her look into the State Dept website for possible opportunities in France. It's just a stepping stone and it will open your eyes if it's something she wants to do or not.

Again not trying to steer her away from the military but showing her different options that are out there.

[Don Fernando]

Her dream job has always been at an embassy in Western Europe.

If she comes to Amsterdam you're gonna have to visit her and that is a good reason to herf with the Dutch crew ;)

[bobarian]

With her language skills the DLI(Defense Language Institute) is an option. Drop Darrell a PM as he just finished his enlistment there. I dont know if they have civilian jobs but that also might be an option.

[Partagaspete]

First bit of advice:

Make sure she is talking to an Officer Recruiter! If the guy is an enlisted recruiter chances are he is trying the old "enlist now and in a short while you can go officer, It's easy we do it all the time..." B.S.

Second bit of advice:

Go USAF, quality of life is so much better than the other branches IMHO and many will agree.

Finally, I will not recommend any career field because I can even understand why someone would want to be an accountant but some people love it. However, find a career that tranfers well to the civilian sector for the future.

T

[tobii3]

Holy crap.....what are some of you basing your suggestions on??

""Well, I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night""?????

Partagas Pete has about the most realistic and HONEST suggestion so far!!!

[Darrell]

I think she should join the Air Force. They take better care of their people and have better facilities than the rest of the services. They also have a great Intelligence field, especially for Intel officers. Make sure she is seeing an OFFICER recruiter, and not an ENLISTED. You don't need your little girl who just spent 4 years getting a degree, getting suckered into joining the Air Force for 4 years as an E-3. :r

EDIT:

Tony beat me above about the officer recruiter thing.

[theycallmedan'lboone]

just to ensure we beat the horse to ensure it's dead... OFFICERS RECRUITER!

[tobii3]

screw Intel....point her towards CA/PSYOPS.

Cliff's notes -

Functional area description. Encompasses positions which re-quire officers possessing special skills relating to the conduct of PSYOP or CA. Additionally, these highly educated officers must have critical skills associated with a specific region of the world, foreign language expertise, political-military awareness, and cross-cultural communications. PSYOP and CA officers perform critical roles across the spectrum of conflict at all levels of command. In addition, both PSYOP and CA have companies, battalions, and one PSYOP group level command, which perform significant missions in support of Conventional and Special Operations, theater, and national objectives. PSYOP and CA officers play critical roles in foreign internal defense and unconventional warfare as well as other missions directed by the national command authority, in peace and war

I wasn't suggesting it as a shot in the dark like some of these recommendations, I was suggesting it because I have spent 20 years WORKING with these kinds of Officers.

Another point -

Special qualifications for both Psychological Operations and Civil Affairs Officers.

(a) Be fully qualified as a CPT in primary branch.

(b) Have a Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB) score of 85 or above, or, possess a measurable ability in a foreign language.

(c) Male or female managed by the Officer Personnel Manage*ment Directorate.

(d) Be eligible for TOP SECRET security clearance under the provisions of AR 380-67.

(e) Be airborne qualified or volunteer for airborne training (if required).

(f) Possess a baccalaureate degree, preferably in social/political science or related disciplines, from an accredited college or university.

[MithShrike]

Cryptolinguist for the Air Force would probably be her best bet. That was my plan until my health deteriorated so badly. My cousin and few guys I smoke with have done that and it's a darned good job especially if she has some prior language experience. Although the languages really needed right now are Middle Eastern. Since her language experience is Indo-European her best bet would be to try for Farsi or Pashto which are relatively easy to learn in comparison to a Semitic language like Arabic or an Altaic language like Korean.

[bvilchez]

I think she should join the Air Force. They take better care of their people and have better facilities than the rest of the services. They also have a great Intelligence field, especially for Intel officers. Make sure she is seeing an OFFICER recruiter, and not an ENLISTED. You don't need your little girl who just spent 4 years getting a degree, getting suckered into joining the Air Force for 4 years as an E-3. :r

EDIT:

Tony beat me above about the officer recruiter thing.


Darrell you're my boy and all and I can't wait to herf with you but you only served in the Air Force correct? Just my :2 but I've only served in my beloved Corps and don't know how anyone else takes care of their people. I understand it's your opinion and I respect it fully. But let's not jump to conclusions here please.

On the other hand Darrell has made a point that I have seen time and time again in the Corps and that's my junior Marines telling me they have a 4 year degree. WTF!?!?!?!? I hate it when recruiters do that because it makes us look bad as a whole and 99% of the time gives that one individual a bad taste in their mouth about that service since the recruiter pulled a fast one like that.

Whatever choice she makes just instill in her that it's a commitment. If she goes military and sticks with it for a few years then tell her to enjoy it and to make the most of it. There are many programs out there for officers that will definitely be beneficial for when they decide to transition out of the service and into the civilian sector. Some may even apply to something she might want to pursue later.

Biggest thing is make sure she weighs ALL her options.

[Tikihut27]

Now that we've all determined she should be an officer (not everyone wants to be one, although I am one myself), the key factor to me is how she is going to intergrate her service into her long-term career goals.

She should look at what job she wants 10-15 years from now... research a little as to the qualifications of the positions. Things like TS clearances, experience, civilian degrees, etc.

She should then tailor her military goals so that she meets her long-term goals- that the military leaves her with those qualifications when she decides to leave. The military helps with Master's degrees, but different branches and jobs within them will offer her specialty skills and clearances.

Then balance that with having her pick a job she will enjoy in the meantime.

For example, MI can help her get a TS clearance, but could be kind of boring if you are stuck writing powerpoint presentations all day. CA can get her out into the world and interacting with all types of people. Then again, CA folks get deployed a lot and it's a kind of dangerous job...

The National Guard and Reserves offer a lot of the training and experiences while at the same time allowing (most of the time, ho, ho) for officers to gain experience in the civilain sector at the same time. This has worked out well for me, except for the multiple deployments since 9/11. The National Guard also offers state missions, which in FL is a big deal. As a Guardsman, I can tell you the opportunity to help folks right here in NY deal with natural disasters is a big reason for me to stay in.

Drawback to the Guard and Reserves is that is can be hard to find the job you want located close enough to you.

[Darrell]

Darrell you're my boy and all and I can't wait to herf with you but you only served in the Air Force correct? Just my :2 but I've only served in my beloved Corps and don't know how anyone else takes care of their people. I understand it's your opinion and I respect it fully. But let's not jump to conclusions here please.

On the other hand Darrell has made a point that I have seen time and time again in the Corps and that's my junior Marines telling me they have a 4 year degree. WTF!?!?!?!? I hate it when recruiters do that because it makes us look bad as a whole and 99% of the time gives that one individual a bad taste in their mouth about that service since the recruiter pulled a fast one like that.

Whatever choice she makes just instill in her that it's a commitment. If she goes military and sticks with it for a few years then tell her to enjoy it and to make the most of it. There are many programs out there for officers that will definitely be beneficial for when they decide to transition out of the service and into the civilian sector. Some may even apply to something she might want to pursue later.

Biggest thing is make sure she weighs ALL her options.

You're right Jay. We could all argue which service takes care of their people better and we would never get anywhere, because we work completely based off of assumptions -- however the AF does have the best facilities. :D

[Tio Gato]

http://careers.state.gov/officer/index.html
Take a look at the Foreign Service website.
Something I had wanted to do when I was young was work in embassies. Just make sure she can get CC's in the diplomatic pouch for you.:ss